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THE REWATCHABLES · April 9, 2024

The War of the Roses

A 1989 comedy / thriller movie directed by Danny DeVito—and decision no. 3 in the Hanks–Cruise tape.

ComedyThriller1980sDirected by Danny DeVito
The War of the Roses1989MOVIE
Podcast episode#335No. 352 overall
Movie year19891980s release
Tomatometer84%No. 50 of 128 tracked
Metacritic80View score
Roger Ebert3/4Original star rating
State of the raceCruise led by 11–2 · 0 ties

FROM THE CONVERSATION

What they said about the movie

A spirited discussion of The War of the Roses as a dark, mean divorce comedy that works because Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner are so good together. The group praises the movie’s escalation from bitter domestic comedy to full-on destruction, while also debating the framing device, Danny DeVito’s role as director and narrator, and how a modern remake would differ.
Based only on this episode’s transcriptTimes approximateSpeakers were clearly identifiedExplore the connections

WHY IT WORKS

What made it rewatchable

  1. 01Douglas and Turner’s chemistry makes the movie work as both a romance and a vicious breakup comedy. About 8 min
  2. 02The movie keeps escalating into increasingly absurd acts of domestic warfare, which the hosts find very funny to revisit. About 32 min
  3. 03The central house becomes a perfect battleground and visual set piece for the story. About 48 min · medium confidence
  4. 04The dialogue is packed with memorable insults and devastating breakup lines. About 32 min

WHAT DID NOT WORK

Their main criticisms

  1. minorThe young Michael Douglas wig is distractingly bad. About 56 min
  2. moderateThe framing device with Danny DeVito is seen as overused and possibly unnecessary. About 48 min
  3. moderateThe movie does not give enough evidence that the marriage was genuinely happy before it fell apart. About 1:12
  4. moderateThe animal cruelty beats are painful to watch, even if they serve the story. About 56 min

SCENES THEY KEPT COMING BACK TO

Standout moments

mixed

Young-couple prologue

The early courtship and sex scene are funny but also obviously exaggerated, with the hosts joking about the location and the age casting.

About 16 min
Favorite

Dinner party and Baccarat story

Oliver hijacks Barbara’s story, leading to escalating embarrassment, humor, and marital humiliation.

About 32 min
Favorite

Oliver reads the love letter before the breakup

The letter-reading becomes a comic and tragic turning point when Barbara rejects him.

About 32 min
Favorite

The divorce ultimatum in the bedroom

Barbara says she wants to smash his face in, crystallizing the movie’s hostility.

About 32 min
critical

Cat accident and dog-pate escalation

The animal cruelty and revenge cooking push the movie into nastier territory.

About 56 min
positive

Christmas tree fire and extinguisher gag

Oliver reading the extinguisher instructions becomes a physical-comedy highlight.

About 48 min
Favorite

Final chandelier collapse

The couple’s last swing and fatal fall are treated as the ideal dark-comedy ending.

About 40 min

WHERE THEY DISAGREED

The biggest debates

They partly agreed About 8 min

Best divorce movie pantheon picks

Bill Simmons

Kramer vs. Kramer and War of the Roses have to be on the top four.

Mallory Rubin

Squid and the Whale and Marriage Story belong among the best divorce films.

Amanda Dobbins

Mrs. Doubtfire works as the child-of-divorce entry.

They partly agreed About 48 min

Whether the Danny DeVito framing device helps the film

Bill Simmons

Could be cut back substantially or used only as narration.

Mallory Rubin

The framing gives the film fable-like quality and makes the nastiness more bearable.

Amanda Dobbins

Ultimately lands on the framing device as weak-link material.

They agreed About 40 min

What should be the better version of the ending showdown

Bill Simmons

The chandelier ending is perfect as is.

Amanda Dobbins

The final fall is perfect but the house setup and logistics invite nitpicks.

No final agreement About 16 min

Who should star in a remake

Bill Simmons

Tom Cruise could work because he can play cocky and unlikeable.

Mallory Rubin

Olivia Colman is capable of nasty but the pair feels too mature and not hot enough.

Amanda Dobbins

Bradley Cooper and Jennifer Lawrence or Gosling and Stone are more plausible kinds of pairings.

11 People discussedActors, directors, writers, and producers
very favorableMichael DouglasBill Simmons: Praised as charismatic, funny, and a major 80s star with a strong run of hits. About 8 min very favorableKathleen TurnerBill Simmons: Celebrated as sexy, funny, fearless, and central to the movie’s success. About 8 min mixedDanny DeVitoBill Simmons: Praised for some great lines and the framing narration, but questioned as a director who inserts himself too much. About 24 min
neutralBenedict CumberbatchBill Simmons: Mentioned only as part of the announced remake casting; the hosts are skeptical he fits the role. About 16 min
mixedOlivia ColmanAmanda Dobbins: Admired for her ability to play nasty and weird, but not considered ideal casting for this specific remake. About 16 min
mixedGavinBill Simmons: The lawyer/framing voice is seen as useful for the fable-like structure but possibly manipulative and overdone. About 48 min
neutralSean AstinBill Simmons: Mentioned in connection with the son character and a father-son advice scene. About 1:12
neutralPhil CollinsBill Simmons: Mentioned as having written a song that was considered for the film. About 1:20
neutralRobert RedfordBill Simmons: Used as a comparison point when discussing older actors playing too-young roles. About 16 min favorableHarrison FordMallory Rubin: Referenced in a hypothetical de-aging and remake discussion; treated as a strong example of star casting choices. About 16 min · medium confidencefavorableTom CruiseBill Simmons: Discussed as a possible fit for the role because he can play cocky and unlikable when needed. About 1:20
10 Conversation takesSpeakers shown only where the transcript identifies them
Bill SimmonsLoved it

The War of the Roses as a divorce movie

Calls it a key entry in the divorce movie pantheon and praises its escalating bitterness.

About 8 min
Mallory RubinLiked it

divorce movies and emotional tone

Says the best divorce movie depends on mood, sometimes favoring despair and sometimes rage and comedy.

About 8 min
Bill SimmonsLoved it

Kathleen Turner

Treats Turner as a singular 80s star whose sex appeal and comic timing are perfectly calibrated here.

About 8 min
Mallory RubinLoved it

the breakup and revenge escalations

Finds the movie’s increasing cruelty and absurdity extremely rewatchable.

About 32 min
Bill SimmonsMixed

Danny DeVito’s directing

Thinks DeVito’s direction has great moments but may include too much of DeVito himself.

About 24 min
Amanda DobbinsLoved it

opposite-end dinner seating

Says the visual of the couple sitting at opposite ends of the table perfectly captures hate in a marriage.

About 56 min
Bill SimmonsLoved it

Oliver’s letter-reading / nose-plugging breakup scene

Calls the sequence art-level funny and emotionally devastating.

About 32 min
Amanda DobbinsDid not like it

the animals in the movie

Objects to the cat and dog cruelty as painful rather than funny.

About 56 min
Bill SimmonsLoved it

the final chandelier ending

Thinks the ending is a perfect, cinematic payoff for the film’s escalation.

About 40 min
Mallory RubinMixed

a modern remake of the film

Is intrigued by a remake but doubts the new leads are hot or reckless enough for the premise.

About 16 min
4 ThemesThe larger ideas in the discussion

Marriage as warfare

The hosts frame the film as a brutal battle of resentment, revenge, and escalation rather than a sentimental breakup story.

About 8 min

Sex and aggression

The movie mixes erotic charge with hostility, using sex and physical comedy as part of the couple’s combat.

About 24 min

1980s star power

Douglas, Turner, and DeVito are treated as a very specific 1980s type of movie-star package that no longer exists.

About 8 min

The dream house becoming a nightmare

The house symbolizes status, control, and marital power, eventually turning into a battlefield.

About 48 min
22 Facts and referencesProduction notes and other movies mentioned

Production note

The film made about $160 million on a $26 million budget.

About 24 min

Production note

Roger Ebert gave the movie three stars and called it a black, angry, bitter comedy.

About 24 min

Production note

The movie was a huge success in Germany and became synonymous with high-profile divorce there.

About 1:04

Production note

A deleted scene explains why Barbara is so sweaty in the finale.

About 1:20

Production note

Phil Collins wrote a song intended for the film, but the offer was withdrawn before completion.

About 1:20

Production note

The production used a 1960 Morgan roadster plus four, which Bill says was extremely rare.

About 1:12

Production note

The hosts say the remake could be interesting partly because cell phones and modern tech would change the logistics.

About 56 min

Production note

A real-life person was inspired by the movie and received a seven-year prison sentence.

About 1:20 · medium confidence

Kramer vs. Kramer

Used as a benchmark divorce movie and comparison point for emotional tone.

About 8 min

Squid and the Whale

Named as a modern divorce film favorite with a very different despair level.

About 8 min

Marriage Story

Referenced as a divorce movie that is powerful but hard to rewatch.

About 8 min

Mrs. Doubtfire

Cited as the child-of-divorce movie choice.

About 8 min

Romancing the Stone

Used as a prior Douglas-Turner pairing and an example of their 80s chemistry.

About 8 min

Jewel of the Nile

Mentioned as the lesser sequel in the Douglas-Turner run.

About 8 min

Body Heat

Used as a comparison for Kathleen Turner’s sex appeal and career trajectory.

About 8 min

Basic Instinct

Referenced in a Michael Douglas dark-era discussion and in a prior Rewatchables joke about his body.

About 8 min

Fatal Attraction

Discussed as another key Michael Douglas dark hit and as a possible house reference later.

About 8 min

The American President

Mentioned as the first Michael Douglas movie Mallory saw and a formative viewing experience.

About 8 min

The Natural

Used as an example of implausibly old-looking actors playing very young characters.

About 16 min

Jerry Maguire

Referenced when discussing Tom Cruise’s ability to play charming but flawed characters.

About 1:20

Gone Girl

Used as a tonal comparison for a possible modern version of the story.

About 1:20

The War of the Roses (remake)

Referenced in the discussion of the Benedict Cumberbatch and Olivia Colman remake announcement.

About 16 min
10 Running jokes and short linesRecurring bits captured from the conversation

Divorce movie pantheon

A recurring framework where the hosts argue over the top four divorce films.

About 8 min

Michael Douglas dark turn / balls swing joke

The episode revisits Douglas’s darker 80s roles and jokingly replays the 'balls swinging' discussion from a prior episode.

About 8 min

Producer Craig’s blind spots

The hosts keep teasing Craig for not knowing the movie and for needing to see it.

About 8 min

House list / movie houses ranking

The conversation spirals into an extended ranking of great movie houses.

About 56 min

Tony Romo director’s commentary imitation

Bill and Amanda riff on Romo-style commentary to describe scenes.

About 1:20

Speaker not identified

“I just want to smash your face in.”
About 32 min

Speaker not identified

“next time I'll hit back.”
About 24 min

Speaker not identified

“Never apologize for being multi-orgasmic.”
About 40 min

Speaker not identified

“tiny worm-like infinitesimal prick”
About 48 min

Speaker not identified

“you have sunk below the deepest layer”
About 48 min

MAKE IT A MOVIE NIGHT

Where to watch

UNITED STATES

Checking where The War of the Roses is available…

WHAT TO WATCH NEXT

Movies to watch before and after.

Three movies to watch before The War of the Roses, and three to watch next.

Finding six movies…Three to watch first and three to watch next.
Includes a Rewatchables episodePosters from TMDB.

ON THE MIC

3 voices made the call

Bill Simmons headshotBill Simmons125 tracked appearances · 56 H / 64 C / 5 ties
Mallory Rubin headshotMallory Rubin12 tracked appearances · 4 H / 6 C / 2 ties
Amanda Dobbins headshotAmanda Dobbins4 tracked appearances · 3 H / 1 C

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