Bill and Mallory revisit The Natural as a mythic, often funny baseball movie that is slower and longer than remembered, but still delivers an iconic payoff. They debate its place in the baseball-movie canon, compare it to Bull Durham and Field of Dreams, and spend much of the episode on its hero’s-journey structure, Greek-myth and Arthurian echoes, and the film’s dated but appealing old-school baseball fantasy.
Based only on this episode’s transcriptTimes approximateSpeakers were clearly identifiedExplore the connections
01The final home run/fireworks sequence is treated as the movie’s signature chill scene and the most rewatchable payoff. About 8 min
02The film’s mythic quality and hero’s-journey structure make it easy to revisit as a baseball legend rather than a realistic sports story. Opening minutes
03Red and Pop’s banter in the dugout gives the movie a lot of humor and charm. About 48 min
04The batting-practice and Wonder Boy-forging material is visually satisfying and suspenseful. About 8 min
WHAT DID NOT WORK
Their main criticisms
moderateThe movie is too long and starts too slowly. Opening minutes
majorRedford is too old for the young-Roy material, making the opening hard to buy. About 56 min
moderateRoy and Iris lack chemistry and their scenes feel awkward. About 56 min
moderateThe middle hospital stretch is overlong and the plot has no real suspense about whether Roy will play. About 56 min
minorCertain baseball mechanics and period details do not hold up, like throwing motions, lineup choices, and ballpark logistics. About 1:04
SCENES THEY KEPT COMING BACK TO
Standout moments
Favorite
Hobbs vs. the Whammer
Roy faces the Babe Ruth stand-in in a carnival-style showdown; the scene is treated as classic and funny.
About 32 min Favorite
Wonder Boy forged by lightning
The bat is created from the lightning-struck tree, framed as a magical origin story.
About 8 min Favorite
First batting practice / team realization
Roy’s first real swings crush the ball and change the team’s mood instantly.
About 32 min Favorite
Pop’s 'losing is a disease' speech
The inspirational speech is both absurd and memorable because of its syphilis comparison.
About 32 min Favorite
The walk-off home run with fireworks
The film’s climactic homer and fireworks are the quintessential chill scene.
About 8 min Favorite
Roy arriving for the final game / 'Suit up'
Bill’s chosen most rewatchable scene is the dramatic return and managerial embrace.
About 48 min positive
Glenn Close stands at the game
The shot is celebrated for its beautiful halo-like lighting.
About 1:20 · medium confidence
WHERE THEY DISAGREED
The biggest debates
They agreed Opening minutes
Greatest baseball movie of all time
Bill Simmons
No; he prefers Bull Durham.
Mallory Rubin
Bull Durham is also her benchmark for different reasons, and she agrees The Natural is not automatically #1.
They partly agreed About 8 min
How mythic versus realistic a baseball movie should be
Bill Simmons
The Natural’s godlike approach is part of why baseball is fun.
Mallory Rubin
The movie fits hero’s-journey mythology but modern tastes may prefer darker ambiguity.
They partly agreed About 48 min
Who is more rewatchable: walk-off homer or final suit-up
Bill Simmons
The final suit-up is his personal pick.
Mallory Rubin
The walk-off homer is still the obvious answer.
They partly agreed About 16 min
Whether The Natural could be remade today
Bill Simmons
Yes, but it would need a darker, more contemporary version.
Mallory Rubin
A basketball version might work better now than baseball.
12 People discussedActors, directors, writers, and producers
