The hosts celebrate Rocky IV as an absurdly rewatchable, montage-heavy movie that is simultaneously exhilarating, ridiculous, and mythic. They argue it is one of the defining bad-good movies, praise its training sequences, villain, music cues, and quotability, and also poke holes in its plotting, boxing logic, and Adrian/Rocky behavior.
Based only on this episode’s transcriptTimes approximateSpeakers were clearly identifiedExplore the connections
01The training montages are treated as elite rewatchable material, especially when combined with the Adrian confrontation and the mountain climb. About 8 min
02Ivan Drago is praised as an iconic villain with memorable one-line delivery and intimidating presence. About 16 min
03The film’s music cues and montage structure create a highly replayable, hype-driven rhythm. About 8 min
04The fight’s absurd escalation, crowd turn, and comeback make the climax endlessly discussable. About 40 min
WHAT DID NOT WORK
Their main criticisms
moderateApollo's fight setup is absurdly underwritten, with major plot developments handled by newspaper clippings instead of scenes. Opening minutes
majorRocky's secrecy and failure to tell Adrian about fighting in Russia is treated as bizarre and unfair to her. Opening minutes
moderateThe boxing rules and officiating are ludicrous, with knockdowns and ref behavior making little sense. Opening minutes
minorAdrian is written as a wet blanket in a way that is effective but also aggravating. About 1:04 · medium confidence
SCENES THEY KEPT COMING BACK TO
Standout moments
Favorite
Apollo's entrance to the Drago exhibition
The James Brown entrance, Apollo dancing, and the ring opening are praised as electric.
About 32 min Favorite
The first Apollo-Drago fight
The hosts love the absurd escalation, the glove touch, Duke's shouting, and Drago's cold intimidation.
About 40 min Favorite
The first training montage
The wood-chopping, beard, and 'Training Montage' music are treated as iconic.
About 8 min Favorite
The second training montage and mountain climb
The climb, jacket, gloves, and 'Hearts on Fire' cue are treated as triumphant nonsense.
About 8 min mixed
The 'You can't win' argument
Adrian's warning is both mocked and defended because Rocky really did hide everything from her.
Opening minutes Favorite
Duke's pep speech
Duke's 'Apollo was like my son' speech is ranked among the all-time great sports movie speeches.
About 16 min Favorite
The 15th round and crowd turn
The crowd cheering Rocky, Drago choking his manager, and the final comeback are discussed as climactic spectacle.
About 40 min
WHERE THEY DISAGREED
The biggest debates
They agreed About 8 min
Training montage one vs. training montage two
Bill Simmons
Prefers the second montage for the beard, mountain climb, and Hearts on Fire.
Cousin Sal
Prefers the second montage because it explains why Adrian and Paulie are in Russia and loves the mountain climb.
Kyle Brandt
Prefers the second montage for the same reasons and the visual payoff.
They partly agreed About 16 min
Pauly vs. Duke
Cousin Sal
Prefers Pauly because of his line delivery and robot nonsense.
Bill Simmons
Prefers Duke because of the chess scene and pep speech.
They partly agreed About 16 min
Robert Tepper vs. John Cafferty music cues
Cousin Sal
Initially thinks one song is Frank Stallone but settles on Robert Tepper and prefers Hearts on Fire.
Bill Simmons
Prefers No Easy Way Out for autobiographical reasons.
They partly agreed About 24 min
East vs. West or man vs. man
Cousin Sal
Says it's man against man.
Kyle Brandt
Also says man against man and calls Apollo's question the movie's best-written scene.
Bill Simmons
Suggests it might be both.
No final agreement About 48 min
Most rewatchable scene
Cousin Sal
Chooses the training sequence as the best stretch.
Kyle Brandt
Leans to the second-round fight after considering it.
Bill Simmons
Ultimately says the two training montages together are the answer.
They partly agreed About 1:12
Who won the movie
Bill Simmons
Says Dolph Lundgren/Ivan Drago won the movie.
Cousin Sal
Agrees Drago is the standout but also jokes America may have won.
15 People discussedActors, directors, writers, and producers
favorableWarner WolfBill Simmons: His cameo lines are treated as hilarious and endlessly quotable. About 24 min
mixedAdrian BalboaBill Simmons: Her objections are mocked as wet-blanket behavior, though the hosts also concede Rocky's secrecy makes her reaction understandable. Opening minutes
favorableStalloneBill Simmons: Praised for physical commitment, beard, sit-ups, and overall apex-mountain star power. About 8 min
Criticizes the abrupt handling of Apollo's death and the missing committee scene, but notes that the deletion makes Adrian's ignorance even more absurd.
Argues the movie is one of the great entertainment/absurdity hybrids and among the most rewatchable films ever made.
Opening minutes
4 ThemesThe larger ideas in the discussion
Cold War symbolism
The hosts joke that the movie ended the Cold War and frame the film as a patriotic fantasy of U.S.-Soviet reconciliation and rivalry.
Opening minutes
Good-bad movie pleasure
They argue the movie straddles genuine entertainment and ridiculousness, functioning as a prototype for later crowd-pleasers like Road House and Point Break.
Opening minutes
Montage as movie language
The episode treats the film as nearly one-third montage and praises how the sequences carry narrative, emotion, and momentum.
About 48 min
Male friendship and sacrifice
Apollo and Rocky are discussed as a bromance/friendship story with sacrifice, loyalty, and guilt at its center.
About 1:12
21 Facts and referencesProduction notes and other movies mentioned
Production note
The hosts claim Rocky IV is the highest-grossing film in the Rocky series and was the highest-grossing sports movie for 24 years until The Blind Side.
About 40 min
Production note
They say the movie is 31.9% montage.
About 48 min
Production note
The deleted boxing-board scene would have explained Rocky giving up his title, but it was cut and replaced by newspaper clippings.
Opening minutes
Production note
Sly and Dolph reportedly hit each other for real, and Stallone was hospitalized with a heart/rib injury after a chest shot.
About 56 min
Production note
Tony Burton was said to be a real-life accomplished chess player and beat Stanley Kubrick in a game on The Shining set.
About 1:04 · medium confidence
Production note
The Russian-heavyweight/professional-fighter point is noted as a Cold War-era rule issue the movie ignores.
About 1:20 · medium confidence
Mentioned with uncertainty
The hosts say the film's boxing cards would likely make Drago a massive betting favorite over Rocky.
About 1:20
Top Gun
Used as a benchmark for entertaining, ridiculous 80s rewatchability.
Opening minutes
Road House
Cited as a later movie that seems to follow Rocky IV's rewatchable-good-bad model.
Opening minutes
Point Break
Mentioned alongside Road House as an 80s/90s action movie in the same family.
Opening minutes
Goodfellas
Referenced for the Layla scene as a benchmark for great rewatchable scenes.
About 48 min
Shawshank Redemption
Referenced via the Mozart scene as another benchmark.
About 48 min
The Longest Yard
Referenced as a source of a classic sports-movie pep speech.
About 16 min
Any Given Sunday
Referenced for Tony D'Amato's halftime speech as a similar pep-talk benchmark.
About 16 min
Predator
Referenced for the 'if it bleeds, we can kill it' line as a comparable sports/culture quote.
About 40 min
The Dark Knight Rises
Referenced for Bane's coat as another heat-check wardrobe example.
About 56 min · medium confidence
Cobra
Mentioned as a Stallone vehicle that followed Rocky IV and could merit its own episode.
About 1:20
Over the Top
Referenced as another Stallone project showing his mid-80s power.
About 1:20
Bloodsport
Referenced for Van Damme's physical-showcase style and as a comparison to Stallone's commitment.
About 1:04
Rocky III
Used constantly as the immediate predecessor and source of the opening montage footage.
Opening minutes
Rocky V
Mentioned only to note continuity problems and as an ignored sequel.
About 48 min
12 Running jokes and short linesRecurring bits captured from the conversation
Cold War history gag
They repeatedly joke that Rocky IV ended the Cold War and lay out fake geopolitical causality.
Opening minutes
Adrian is right to be angry
A recurring bit is that Adrian's annoyance is more justified once Rocky's secrecy is examined.
Opening minutes
Nonsense logistics of Russia
They joke about Rocky going to Russia for no money, with malaria, Christmas timing, and what Adrian would do if she found out.
Opening minutes
'He's cut' / 'a piece of iron'
They repeatedly quote Drago fight calls as everyday jokes.
About 40 min
Sicko the robot
The robot is treated as a bizarre but beloved 80s artifact and a source of Pauly jokes.
About 1:04
Pauly and the robot
The hosts joke that Pauly tried to get intimate with the robot and that the dialogue would not fly today.
About 1:04
Let Duke Cook
They imagine a fan campaign to give Duke a bigger role and celebrate his speech as proof.
About 16 min · medium confidence
Bill Simmons
“This was supposed to be an exhibition!”
Opening minutes
Cousin Sal
“If I can change, you can change”
Opening minutes
Bill Simmons
“Throw the damn towel!”
About 40 min
Bill Simmons
“If he dies, he dies”
About 40 min
Bill Simmons
“I must break you”
About 40 min
MAKE IT A MOVIE NIGHT
Where to watch
UNITED STATES
Checking where Rocky IV is available…
WHAT TO WATCH NEXT
Movies to watch before and after.
Three movies to watch before Rocky IV, and three to watch next.
Finding six movies…Three to watch first and three to watch next.
ON THE MIC
3 voices on this episode
Bill SimmonsThe Rewatchables
CSCousin SalThe Rewatchables
Kyle BrandtThe Rewatchables
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