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THE REWATCHABLES · November 24, 2020

8MM

A 1999 thriller / mystery directed by Joel Schumacher, covered in the complete Rewatchables archive.

ThrillerMystery1990sDirected by Joel Schumacher
Overall episode#175Source sheet order
Movie year19991990s
Tomatometer23%Critics’ score
Metacritic21View score
Roger Ebert3/4Original star rating
DirectorJoel SchumacherThriller / Mystery

FROM THE CONVERSATION

What they said about the movie

The hosts argue that 8MM is a flawed but highly rewatchable descent-into-hell thriller: dark, grotesque, unintentionally funny, and powered by Nicolas Cage, Joaquin Phoenix, and James Gandolfini. They praise its atmosphere, villains, and specific scenes while also mocking its awkward family subplot and studio-softened execution.
Based only on this episode’s transcriptTimes approximateSpeakers were clearly identifiedExplore the connections

WHY IT WORKS

What made it rewatchable

  1. 01Nicolas Cage’s committed, over-the-top performance makes the movie funny as well as intense. About 8 min
  2. 02Joaquin Phoenix’s Max California scenes energize the movie and make the descent into the underground memorable. About 24 min
  3. 03The movie’s mix of depravity and absurdity makes it more enjoyable on repeat viewings than on a first watch. Opening minutes
  4. 04The investigation scenes have a clear procedural rhythm that is satisfying to follow. About 1:20 · medium confidence
  5. 05James Gandolfini’s sleazy performance and the final confrontations create memorable set pieces. About 40 min

WHAT DID NOT WORK

Their main criticisms

  1. majorCatherine Keener’s wife-and-baby subplot is viewed as badly written, unnecessary, and awkward. About 16 min
  2. moderateThe film softens Andrew Kevin Walker’s original darkness and loses some of the nastiness that could have made it hit harder. About 24 min
  3. minorThe opening and some early exposition are deemed disposable. About 48 min
  4. minorThe movie’s porn-world geography and LA red-light-district vibe are partially manufactured and feel exaggerated. About 1:04

SCENES THEY KEPT COMING BACK TO

Standout moments

positive

Missing girl’s mother dinner scene

The second conversation with the mother deepens the loss and hint of mutual loneliness.

About 16 min
Favorite

Max California’s first porn-shop scene

Phoenix’s first big scene turns the movie on and delivers the Anal Secretary/Truman Capote joke.

About 40 min
Favorite

Machine revelation

The mask removal and reveal that Machine is ordinary-looking make him especially frightening.

About 24 min
Favorite

Cage and Gandolfini phone call

Cage confronts Gandolfini by phone while spying on him, creating a great burst of tension.

About 40 min
Favorite

Meatpacking District showdown

The crossbow and final confrontation with Dino Velvet and Machine is treated as a major payoff.

About 40 min
Favorite

Cage and Machine final fight

The rainy fight ends with Cage getting the upper hand and Machine’s death by knife.

About 40 min

WHERE THEY DISAGREED

The biggest debates

They partly agreed About 16 min

Whether the movie is better with or without the Catherine Keener subplot

Bill Simmons

The Keener and baby scenes should mostly be removed because they add little to the plot.

Van Lathan

The family material gives the square detective emotional contrast, even if it is awkward.

Chris Ryan

The scenes are bad and could be cut, but they do help represent the life Tom cannot return to.

They partly agreed About 24 min

Whether Andrew Kevin Walker’s darker original script would have been better

Chris Ryan

The studio version may be softened, but the core movie still works.

Bill Simmons

The darker child-porn elements were probably too much for a studio movie.

Van Lathan

The added material is unnecessary; the released film is already depraved enough.

They agreed About 1:12

Who wins the movie

Bill Simmons

Joaquin Phoenix wins because his supporting role is the most alive part of the film.

Chris Ryan

Phoenix wins, though Machine is a close second because of how scary he is.

Van Lathan

Machine or Schumacher could also be argued, but Phoenix is the standout talent.

They agreed About 24 min

Best villain in the movie

Bill Simmons

Machine is one of the most frightening villains of the last 25-30 years.

Van Lathan

Machine is terrifying because he is just an ordinary guy who enjoys cruelty.

Chris Ryan

Machine is frightening because the movie offers no conspiracy explanation, just appetite.

10 People discussedActors, directors, writers, and producers
12 Conversation takesSpeakers shown only where the transcript identifies them
Bill SimmonsLoved it

8MM

Calls it one of the weirdest movies of the last 25 years and says he loves it despite its flaws.

Opening minutes
Chris RyanLiked it

8MM

Likes it as a rewatchable because the premise is great even if the execution is murky.

Opening minutes
Van LathanLiked it

8MM

Likes the movie because it is weird and depraved but not quite as extreme as it could have been.

Opening minutes
Bill SimmonsLoved it

Nicolas Cage

Sees Cage as a uniquely committed performer whose lack of winking is part of the fun.

About 8 min
Chris RyanLoved it

Nicolas Cage

Places Cage’s 1995-2000 stretch among great film eras and sees this movie as a key turning point.

About 8 min
Van LathanLoved it

Joaquin Phoenix

Describes Phoenix as a behind-the-eyes actor whose performances suggest hidden damage.

About 24 min
Chris RyanLoved it

Max California

Thinks Max California is an excellent, scene-stealing guide through the underground world.

About 24 min
Bill SimmonsLoved it

Machine

Treats Machine as an underrated candidate for one of the most frightening villains in recent movies.

About 24 min
Van LathanLoved it

Machine

Finds Machine scarier because he is just a normal-looking person who likes hurting people.

About 24 min
Chris RyanLoved it

Cage calling Gandolfini

Highlights the phone-call confrontation as one of the best scenes in the movie.

About 40 min
Bill SimmonsLoved it

Cage and Phoenix in the porn shop

Prefers the Max California scenes, especially the first sequence in the adult bookstore.

About 40 min
Van LathanLiked it

LA as perverse underworld

Enjoys the movie’s exaggerated vision of Los Angeles as a seedy porn district, even while noting it is made up.

About 1:04
5 ThemesThe larger ideas in the discussion

Descent into depravity

The movie is framed as a normal man pulled into an underground world of violence and sexual depravity.

Opening minutes

The horror of unexplainable evil

Machine is discussed as terrifying because he seems ordinary rather than monstrous and admits he did it because he could.

About 24 min

Hollywood and studio compromise

The hosts suggest the film feels like a softened version of a much darker script and a compromise between artist and studio.

About 24 min

Pornography as a hidden world

The film is treated as a late-90s fantasy of an underground porn network that feels both real and exaggerated.

About 40 min

Trauma that cannot be unseen

Max’s warning about things you can’t unsee becomes the movie’s key emotional and thematic line.

About 24 min
23 Facts and referencesProduction notes and other movies mentioned

Production note

The script was written by Andrew Kevin Walker, who also wrote Seven.

Opening minutes

Production note

The studio reportedly removed a heavier child-porn subplot from Walker’s original script.

About 48 min

Production note

The movie made about $96.6 million worldwide against a $40 million budget.

About 56 min

Production note

Roger Ebert gave the film three stars and defended it as a real film rather than exploitation.

About 56 min

Production note

Rotten Tomatoes is said to have a 21% rating on the film.

About 56 min

Production note

Machine’s mask is available on Prop Bay, a prop-memorabilia marketplace.

About 1:20 · medium confidence

Production note

Eddie drives a Stutz Blackhawk in the movie.

About 1:20

Production note

Joel Schumacher also directed DC Cab, St. Elmo’s Fire, Lost Boys, Flatliners, Falling Down, The Client, and A Time to Kill.

About 56 min

Seven

Used as the obvious comparison for depravity, Andrew Kevin Walker’s style, and the movie’s darker sibling.

Opening minutes

Hardcore

Mentioned as the 1970s precursor about a father searching for his missing daughter in porn.

About 32 min

Taxi Driver

Referenced as another root for the lonely man descending into an underground world.

Opening minutes

The Game

Mentioned in discussion of Andrew Kevin Walker’s writing career and ghostwriting.

About 48 min

Sleepy Hollow

Cited as another Andrew Kevin Walker credit that suggested a bigger career than he ultimately had.

About 48 min

True Romance

Used as the benchmark for James Gandolfini and as a similarly sleazy performance.

About 32 min

Gladiator

Used to describe Joaquin Phoenix’s star power and later compared to Russell Crowe’s performance arc.

About 32 min

The Net

Used as part of a cluster of late-90s tech thrillers that imagined internet capabilities unrealistically.

About 1:20 · medium confidence

Enemy of the State

Referenced as a tech-paranoia movie that made surveillance feel omnipotent.

About 1:20

Funny Games

Referenced in a comparison to Max California acting as a warning guide toward inevitable horror.

About 40 min · medium confidence

National Treasure

Mentioned as part of Cage’s later, more commercial career path.

About 8 min

The Rock

Used to illustrate Cage’s action-star run after his Oscar win.

About 8 min

Con Air

Another title in Cage’s late-90s action-star run.

About 8 min

Face/Off

Referenced as one of Cage’s outrageous performances that set up his 8MM energy.

About 8 min

Batman and Robin

Mentioned as the Schumacher film that changed his career trajectory.

About 56 min
10 Running jokes and short linesRecurring bits captured from the conversation

Machine photos / machine footage

The hosts joke about texting each other Machine photos and clips because the character is so funny and disturbing.

Opening minutes

Cage’s career descent/plane landing bit

They describe Cage’s career arc as a plane beginning to descend from the late-90s into his later oddball output.

About 8 min

Max California quotes

They repeatedly quote Max’s warnings about things you can’t unsee and use the line as a callback.

About 24 min

Adult Bookstore sign-off

They joke about the generic name of Max’s workplace and the overly plain store sign-off.

About 1:12

Phone-call status reports

They riff on reporting their own work progress in a phone-call style after discussing Cage’s calls in the film.

About 1:12 · medium confidence

Chris Ryan

“there are things you're gonna see”
About 40 min

Bill Simmons

“The film is real”
About 40 min

Van Lathan

“I danced with the devil”
About 8 min · medium confidence

Bill Simmons

“Hello, machine. Love your work.”
About 24 min

Chris Ryan

“because he could”
About 24 min

MAKE IT A MOVIE NIGHT

Where to watch

UNITED STATES

Checking where 8MM is available…

WHAT TO WATCH NEXT

Movies to watch before and after.

Three movies to watch before 8MM, and three to watch next.

Finding six movies…Three to watch first and three to watch next.
Includes a Rewatchables episodePosters from TMDB.

ON THE MIC

3 voices on this episode

Bill Simmons headshotBill SimmonsThe Rewatchables
Chris Ryan headshotChris RyanThe Rewatchables
Van Lathan headshotVan LathanThe Rewatchables

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